Acts 9-10 | Nathan Worthington and Kristin Mockler Young

Today, I’m joined by Nathan Worthington and Kristin Mockler Young, and we talk about the deep theology of Stephen’s speech, meet Saul for the first time in a not-so-flattering light, and dig into the movement of the gospel to Ethiopia. Let’s do it!

Nate is a former pastor of 11 years who now works as a student advisor at a university in Phoenix, AZ where he gets to work with college students; a demographic near and dear to his heart given his own faith journey of faith and doubt. He has been lucky to call himself Ashley’s husband for 13 years and they have two daughters, Emma and Grace. He can usually be spotted with an americano in one hand, a book in the other and a soccer ball at his feet. You can see what coffee he’s currently enjoying on Instagram or kindly ratio his tweets at @NateWorthington.

Kristin is a loud laugher and happy clapper whose love languages include coffee, GIFs and all that sparkles. She is the Community Pastor at Mosaic Church where she gets to preach, teach and love on people. She writes at TurningTheGem.com where she helps people find Jesus outside of religion or the limited perspectives they may have grown up with. She also laughs at herself on Instagram at @kristinmockleryoung. She is married to Peter, who started as one of her volunteers at church, and they have 2 daughters, Marlee & Margot.

Are you disentangling your faith from the culture around you? The greatest tool in that journey for me was the Bible itself. You’ve probably noticed that here on the show we love the Bible, and we take it seriously - but not always literally, and that means that meaning can get a little complicated. But you don’t have to let that overwhelm you. I’ve put together the Big Picture Toolkit to help you understand how all of Scripture fits together in one incredible story, learn some new questions to ask to get at meaning without getting overwhelmed, and see new connections between Old and New Testaments with a special Bible Reading Plan. If you’re ready to get back to basics of your faith, the Bible is a great place to start, and the Big Picture Bible Toolkit can help. Grab yours today free at kateboyd.co/bible.

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Transcript

Kate Boyd: 0:09

You're listening to happy and holy the podcast where scripture comes to life through a small group discussion. This season, we're walking through the birth of the church in the book of Acts, and you get to be a fly on the wall to see what new things we learn with and from one another, as we engage scripture in community. I'm your host, Kate Boyd. I'm a disciple maker, writer and speaker, who is making space in the church for Christians caught in the messy middle between conservative and progressive. We love Jesus love people and work with God and each other for a better world. Welcome to the show. If you are in the midst of disentangling your faith from the culture around you, the greatest tool I found for that journey for me was the Bible itself. You've probably noticed on the show here that we love the Bible, and we take it seriously. But not always, literally. And that means that meaning can get a little complicated, but you don't have to let that overwhelm you. I put together the big picture Bible toolkit to help you understand how all of Scripture fits together in one incredible story. Learn new questions to ask to get at meaning without getting overwhelmed and see new connections between Old and New Testaments with a special Bible reading plan. If you're ready to get back to basics of your faith, the Bible is a great place to start. And the big picture Bible toolkit can help grab yours today for free at Kate boyd.co/bible. Okay, on to today's show, we are talking through Acts nine and 10. And I'm joined with my friends, Nathan Worthington and Kristin Mockler. Young. Chapters nine and 10 are really, really interesting. And so we talk about all sorts of things, there is healing, there are visions, there are game changing moments. And I know that you don't want to wait to jump in. So let's do it. Welcome, everyone. Today we are talking through Acts chapters nine and 10. And we're meeting some new characters and getting in deeper with some old ones. And so but before we dive in, I guess I should introduce you to my friends who are joining me today. And so Kristin, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Kristin Mockler Young: 2:31

Hello, yes, my name is Kristen. Kristen Mockler. Young on all the social medias. So that's how my friends have started calling me by all three names, which is fine. I'm a pastor at Mosaic church in Charlotte, North Carolina. And I also have a blog called The turning the gym, where I just kind of like to actually basically what we're doing today just go through Scripture and ask God, you know, what have I missed? And is there a new way that he wants me to see? See the stories in the scriptures? So I'm so excited to be here?

Kate Boyd: 3:01

Yeah, thanks. Yeah. Nate, why don't you tell us a little bit about you?

Nathan Worthington: 3:06

Yeah. Hi. Thanks for having me. My name is Nate. I am in Phoenix, Arizona, Nate Worthington, on all the socials. From the East Coast. Originally, I've come to learn that the southwest and the west coast on the West Coast and ministry for about 16 years total. started off as a youth pastor, and then moved into a family pastor role and eventually associate pastor. And, yeah, I'm not in ministry anymore. But um, well, at least full time vocational ministry, I should say you're always in ministry. But I love doing this too. I love I love collaborating and just sitting down and getting perspective on Scripture and hearing other people's takes and unpacking it.

Kate Boyd: 3:45

Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely it's really fun for me. And so that's why I'm always delighted that I get to spend part of my weekends doing this with people like you guys. So before we get to the recaps, I want to catch people up where so seven and eight we saw Stephen Wright and we were introduced to Sol very briefly. And then we got Philip and the unike. So we're starting to move into like a new phase of X. From here. We've really seen Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and then we're starting to move into a new space. And so with that in mind, as we jump into our conversation, Nate, will you recap chapter nine for us?

Nathan Worthington: 4:34

Yeah, absolutely. So chapter nine is a lot of people are familiar with the conversion of Saul is forked off. And it's kind of interesting because he essentially is, you know, hunting, you know, people of the way as the text describes, and it specifically says men or women so you could enter a joke here about Paul actually being egalitarian, right? not showing any indifference there. But he He's essentially you know, trying to track them down and arrest them and eventually kill them. Right? That's That's what he's known for at this point. He's on his way to Damascus when he sees a light and actually encounters Jesus. And there he's told to by Jesus to enter that city where he'll be told what to do. And meanwhile, he's also you know, Jesus is also working on an alias, and he's there already. And he tells to go to Saul, who's waiting for him to regain his sight. And, and is obviously pushes back, given Saul's reputation, but ultimately goes and does this and Saul is baptized. Saul den spends several days there evangelizing, while throwing everyone for a loop because of his reputation. Everyone's kind of like, what is this guy about this for real. And, but after a couple of days of this, the Jewish religious elite ended up realizing that they've lost saw, so they plot to kill him. And the disciples helped them escape, saw then goes to Jerusalem to join the disciples there and again, met with fear due to his reputation. But Barnabas essentially comes to vouch for him and his story. And then he continues to evangelize. They're including a group called the Hellenists, who were trying to kill him until the disciples ended up sending him to Tarsus for his protection. And then that whole segment is kind of, you know, wrapped up beautifully in verse 31, where it says, so the Church throughout all Judea, and Galilee, and some area had peace, and was being built up. And walking in the fear of the Lord and the comfort of the Holy Spirit, it multiplies. So it's a really good low recap of what's happening here. Then the chapter kind of pivots to Peter, who finds himself in lidda. And he finds a niece who has been stuck in bed paralyzed for eight years. And Peter speaks over him to rise and a nice Dutch cell, and all the residents of litta, end up quote, unquote, as a ESV Version says, returned to the Lord. Then nearby lidda, is a town called Joppa. I think I'm saying that correctly. I've looked it up a couple of different times. And there's a disciple there named Tabitha or Dorcas, who became ill and died. And the disciples who were, who were there sent for Peter, who was nearby, which I found out to be about eight miles away, and took him up to the top of his body, where he's met by widows holding garments that Tabitha had made. And he has them leave. And he tells Tabitha, it arrives, and she opens her eyes and sits up. And he then presents her life to to those same widows, and all throughout Java, many believed in the Lord. And so that's what we're seeing here in chapter nine as a quick recap.

Kate Boyd: 7:51

Yeah, I mean, what I love about one of the things I love about x is just sort of how you continually see not only the Holy Spirit working, but how he's really intentional about showing, like, what was going on, and all the people who were coming, like the church being built up in all these places, and I just love that. So we're going to start with the conversion of Paul. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot happening here. Like, how would you feel if Jesus himself speaks to you? Like, that's quite, especially when you think you're doing the right thing, right. Chris, and

Kristin Mockler Young: 8:37

it's such I was gonna, I'm laughing at the, at the very first verse of chapter nine, because it's such a like, turn around in the story. I mean, it starts with meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. So we go from like, Listen, I am coming in with a vengeance too, by the end, like a completely different person. Like No wonder. These people were all going. No, no, no, no, please don't come to our town. Because they knew what he was coming for.

Nathan Worthington: 9:05

Yeah, yeah. He's he's definitely has he has no chill whatsoever. You know? He's coming in hot, right? Yeah,

Kate Boyd: 9:12

I feel like he has one mode. And maybe that's why he and Peter don't always get along, because I feel like they both have that like really strong, like passionate personality, like whatever they're doing, they're doing at a 10 at all times. Because they definitely butt heads sometimes. Yeah, I mean, to the point that like, he's not just doing it in Jerusalem, where he was he's getting letters to go to other towns and other spaces. I mean, Damascus is what Syria so he's like, going away to be like, No, we're just we're gonna squash this immediately. To being

Kristin Mockler Young: 9:51

Yeah, and one of the one of the Bibles that I read too, is that the Damascus like, was a hub. And so basically, people knew if he could go to Damascus Because whatever was going to happen there, then it was just going to spread like out to all of these other areas and all these other cities. So I always have to, like, do the Google and research on places and names and things. Because in my mind, I'm like, Oh, it's just another town. But it really was like it was an important town.

Nathan Worthington: 10:18

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But I think to your point to Katie, going back to what you said, originally, at the very top, is that you do see this, this, this weaving together, right, of these people, who, for all intents and purposes, has no business being connected outside of the power of the gospel. And you almost read it, like, almost like a TV show, where it literally goes from scene to scene, where some of these things are happening, meanwhile, like in this at the same time. And that, to me, is just like, really, you get this bigger picture sense of the gospel like, man, the God is always at work all around us all the time. And we're just never fully aware of what it's up to. Sometimes we never are. But sometimes it's delayed. It's just it's really mind blowing.

Kate Boyd: 11:13

Yeah, I am. So for one of my classes, we're really deep in Galatians. So it deals a lot with even how Paul how Paul sort of recounts this for himself. He's like, I met Jesus himself. And he's the one that taught me like, that's how I got saved, like, so he's really putting himself and I think Luke does this often puts Paul on the same footing as like a Peter and a John. And James like, he wants them to be in the same league. Because Luke is a later companion. And so this is obviously a moment that Saul doesn't soon forget. And it really changes the trajectory of everything for him. And even so, one thing I, we read a lot, I was doing a class about ecclesiology, last semester, and we read a lot of Augustine, and he was talking about, he uses the verse, why are you why do you persecute me as sort of an argument for us being the body of Christ because he was being perfect, because he wasn't persecuting Christ Himself. He was persecuting his people. He's like, that just shows you Christ as the head, we are the body. And that's why you can say, Christ, you're persecuting me when it's Jesus. And it's not. When it's Jesus, they're talking to him, which I always, I always found that really lovely. myself.

Unknown: 12:44

I was always, like, go ahead.

Kate Boyd: 12:46

I was just gonna say, and to think that he thinks like, he's confused, right? He's like, No, I'm doing this for God, what is happening here? Like, what Lord? Are you that you're up in my business like this?

Unknown: 12:57

Right? He considered himself super religious. Really?

Nathan Worthington: 13:02

Yeah. What I think he responds to that very, very point, because I was struck. This was kind of something that really stood out to me in verse nine, where he's in Damascus, who's blind, it says, an emperor three days, he was without say, and neither ate or drank. Ie he's fasting. And it was that kind of moment there. And you know, when you fast, I would think this is probably what's going on here. I don't want to read too much into it and make up scripture. But there is probably a deep, you know, in that three days, a deep sense of contemplation, and reflection on what he's done, and what he's been about. And then the encounter that he just had, also sudden suffering he can't see. And for me, I don't know about you guys, but I've always been taught. And as a pastor, I, I have taught that fasting is always something that you do in order to receive something, or to get clarity or to pursue something I've never been taught. And I know I've never have taught, fasting from the standpoint of in the midst of suffering. And that really stood out to me while reading this, in a way that never has before. Yeah, well, I

Kristin Mockler Young: 14:15

think two we know I mean, it says it tells us for three days, but Paul didn't know it was going to be three days. Like that's the other thing too, that I always have to try to remind myself we know these timelines, they didn't know the timelines. So Paul's just going I can't see. So I'm going to fast I have no idea what's going on or when the end is coming. You know, like, we know the end of the story. But yeah, he probably was fasting and praying maybe in his own way, you know, trying to figure out what had just happened to him. Yeah, yeah.

Kate Boyd: 14:48

And meanwhile, and uh, NYAS has his own kind of encounter. You know, if you're Anand is how do you feel hearing this about Paul? or Saul, I guess at this point, we're still calling him Saul or Luke is anyway. Yeah, what sort of stood out to you from Anand is his encounter with God.

Nathan Worthington: 15:14

So for me, as Enneagram, six I resonate hard. With with this response of Wait a minute, let me think of all the worst case scenario. Let me, let me, let me really, you know, present the evidence as to why this is a bad idea. Right. And so I resonate hard with that response. I know that's been true in my life. You know, anytime I've had a major decision to make or or circumstance come upon me, I default to, you know, what is the what is the worst case? Or what, you know, what are all the dangers or warning signs around this? So, yeah, it's a huge, I can easily place my name in this story with it, but this part of the story.

Kristin Mockler Young: 15:56

That's so funny. And since you lead with your Enneagram, I will too, I will say, as an Enneagram, three who needs purpose. I actually have written in my Bible, like from I don't know, if some other years ago when I when I read it, but just a reminder that he played his part and his part, and like, the bigger story was literally just go and get the guy. Like, that's it. And so for me, I always want to be, like, I want to be the Peter, I want to be Mary, I want to be like the big piece, you know, but a lot of time and maybe sometimes we are the big piece, but sometimes we have to be this small piece to play our small parts. And I think we have to be just as just as faithful in those and going okay, like, I'll do this one little thing, and my part is literally just to go get the guy. But it's necessary, you know, for the overall overall thing to happen. That's good.

Kate Boyd: 16:49

Yeah, I think that's good perspective. Because I, I would, I mean, I'm in any gram five, so we'll just get all that out. Yeah. So we all are aware. Um, so yeah, I definitely would have been running through all the scenarios and trying to think of like, I mean, I think on one hand, it shows like how much Saul's reputation is preceding him. Like how much I mean, people scattered from Jerusalem out. And obviously, some of them are now in Damascus, so that he can go get them. And they're meeting probably in the synagogues with people like Anand is, and so they're meeting all this together. And so that's really interesting that we're, we see his reputation come. And I think, you know, it's fair to be scared, but that he does it anyway. And not just that I love in verse 17, when he's like, so I went, and I entered the house, he entered the house. And he said, Brother Saul, like he didn't. He was like, you know, I know what you're about. I know your reputation. But I'm still gonna welcome you as a brother. And I, like I think that says so much about Anand is and who he was, and his relationship to and with God to not just go and encounter this person who is murdering people like him, but to actually like, jump over and be the first to sort of even things out and even be welcoming. I mean, that's a lot I, I would have a really hard time with that. Personally.

Kristin Mockler Young: 18:28

I just chose his fate to he's like, alright, God, I'm trusting you. Like, I'm trusting you to do this thing. Yeah, I don't know that. I want to call them brother.

Kate Boyd: 18:38

Yeah, I mean, that feels like, I would have been like, Okay, I'm doing it, but I'm not gonna be nice about it. You know what I mean? Like, I'm still gonna have some attitude,

Kristin Mockler Young: 18:47

I'm gonna make it clear that this was not my plan, not my plan.

Kate Boyd: 18:51

Exactly.

Unknown: 18:54

Strictly obligatory at this point.

Kate Boyd: 18:59

I also find it interesting. So I'm going to backtrack a little bit in verse 15. And 16, when he's talking about, you know, Anand is it's going back and forth with God. And God then says, I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of My name. And so it's interesting that he's the one inflicting suffering and now he's the one that will have to suffer, you know, largely in the same way that he's been doing to other people. And yet, both right and yet, Paul, Saul still still does that. Like he's being made aware of how much he's gonna have to face. But that's not a hindrance to him. Hmm. Yeah. And then something like scales fell from his eyes. So do we think that's literal or do we think that's a metaphor for his blindness? I mean, I always sort of I always learned that it was like an actual thing. But it did make me wonder when I was reading it this week. I was like, Oh, I mean, that could just be a turn of phrase too. So it's almost like it was coming.

Nathan Worthington: 20:12

Yeah. It could have just been a bad case of eczema. Honestly. Yeah.

Kate Boyd: 20:18

I infection. Yeah, like, crusty.

Kristin Mockler Young: 20:23

Isn't that the question? Like reading the whole Bible? So is this literal? Or is this metaphor, right?

Kate Boyd: 20:29

Which way? Are we supposed to take this particular thing? Yeah, I also love that the encounter ends with he got up and was baptized. And he took some food, which sort of feels sort of like baptism, Eucharist it, like it's got that sort of flow to it, which I don't know that. I mean, I think maybe that's reading into it a little, but I I think that's interesting that it's paired that way. Um, and then he gained his strength from that.

Unknown: 21:02

Yeah. Good.

Kate Boyd: 21:07

And then, okay, so now Saul's in Damascus. And he just, he does his sole thing. He just started preaching. I mean, he just goes for it. Yeah. I'm always impressed with that. Yeah. He just like walks in. I, I think I like that about, I admire that so much about Saul is he knows his focus, right? He's very, he's like, this is my job. And now I'm going to do it all the time.

Nathan Worthington: 21:40

Yeah, that that really resonated with me from my own story. Because I, I grew up in a church. And, you know, I made a decision to accept Christ when I was younger. But it didn't really hit me in a very real way until my senior year of high school. And so I didn't quite have an experience like this, but by any count, but, but it was almost like a, like a light switch. If you think about it, when I look at the story of how God grabbed ahold of me, and a lot of the same responses that we see to Saul, Paul, here is what I got from a lot of friends that I would hang around with, it was it was a drastic change. Where I was all in with church. I was, you know, leading the Bible studies speaking at Fellowship of Christian Athletes. And a lot of people that I played around with were like, well, what do you do? Who is this guy? You know, and and then the people that were, you know, you know, grew up in like homeschooled environments. And they were all in before I was there. They're they're skeptical, like, wait a minute, you're like, you're like Nate Worthington, from the weekend parties and whatnot. So so when it says like, immediately he proclaimed Jesus, like, I, that's what I mean, I'm not Paul, by any account at all. But but I didn't have any seminary training. I didn't have any, you know, formal education or even knowledge to really do it. I just started, just started speaking at, you know, FCA and in my classrooms and my job, wherever I found myself, that's, you know, when you encounter that it's real, it just explodes out of you. Right? So that when I when I read that part, where he's just like, he's just going for it. No. Now since then, I've learned a little bit more about tact.

Kate Boyd: 23:25

And we all right.

Nathan Worthington: 23:28

You know, I don't want to be that guy. But yeah, it was like, Man, I don't know story. I definitely see how that is definitely a true thing for our stories.

Kristin Mockler Young: 23:40

I think that can even be tied back to the whole scale thing. Like whether or not they were physical skills. It's that idea of once you see something you can't unsee it, you know, and I think, Nate like you said, a light like a light switch flip. And I feel like I've had multiple of those where it's maybe it's not a light switch, maybe it's like a dimmer, I got, like, a dimmer switch. I mean, it's like slowly getting brighter and brighter. But it definitely is that idea of once you see more of God, once you see more of Scripture, like you can't unsee it. And so almost like it takes you to the next level, you know, where you can't help but go, oh, my gosh, like I thought this was this, but maybe it means this. And so now let me further explain. You know, what I what I think I know now or what God is revealing to me. So

Kate Boyd: 24:30

yeah, I love that because I think in all my Enneagram five minutes, I have a hard time knowing that I don't know everything. And so it's really hard for me to always like, jump in share, knowing that the person I was 10 years ago I disagreed so much with now. Like what if, what if I'm out here doing things and 10 years from now I hate everything. And what do I do with that? How do we do and you No. And I think sometimes that gets, you know, stuck in an action, which isn't great for me either. And so I think it's, yeah, I, I need a little bit more of Saul's like, courage to just like, I know, I just met Jesus yesterday, but or like three days ago, but we're out here.

Kristin Mockler Young: 25:20

When sometimes I think it's knowledge. And sometimes it can be that we were naive, like, we just didn't know what we didn't know, you know, and I think that could be applied even outside of Scripture. Like, there was a lot of stuff I will tell you like, for years and years, I did not watch the news, because it just made me scared. And I had a lot of fear in my life. But that kept me from understanding even like, social justice or racial injustice is and there was a lot that I didn't know, because I just didn't know it. And I think we can kind of have the same thing there where once you see people, you know, you can't unsee it. Like, I can't go back to ever being that naive, even Christian that I was, yeah. And so now it's like the dimmer switches up, the scales are off, you know, I've seen it now what are we going to do? Like, are we going to go forward like Paul and say something?

Kate Boyd: 26:09

Yeah. So what do we think of? It's interesting, because in I'm reading from the NRSV, and it says Saul became increasingly more powerful, and confounded the Jews who lived in Damascus, by proving that Jesus was the Messiah, but and so he confounds the Jews, which then the Jews find that threatening because he's becoming more powerful. So, um, yeah, death plots, there's actually like a lot of death plots in Acts. I feel like, last weekend, I recorded two episodes, and both of them had death plots. And I was like, goodness, gracious, there's so much people are really threatened by this. Um, yeah. So what do you guys take sort of, from the depth plot, narrow escape? Sort of storyline that we have going on?

Nathan Worthington: 27:03

You know, I mean, that's, that's kind of a point. Yeah. I mean, Jesus talks about that, like, I, this is a whole, like, My kingdom is totally upside down. It's so subversive, it challenges all the power structures. And so yeah, it's gonna bring to the surface, all those insecurities and, and all of those fears from the elite. And from the, from the, from the, from the, from the haves. Versus the have nots. Right. And, and so yeah, I think it's easy for us to sit here and like, after the fact, and like, man, like how, how awful are these are these religious leaders, but I'm just like them. I mean, I'm just as insecure. I'm just as scared when when, you know, when my daughter challenges my authority, or, you know, who's three and a half going on? 16 It feels like and, you know, it just, it's a natural response. It's the brokenness of our world that, you know, it's easy for us to sit here and, and critique it. But there's so many times in my life where I'm just as insecure. You know, I'm not making death threats, that's for sure. Oh, be clear on that.

Kristin Mockler Young: 28:25

I think it also just, it speaks to what an extreme thing this was like. It's not just they're not just like, oh, this Jesus guy was annoying. These disciples are kind of annoying. I think for people like myself, who grew up in the church. This is a good reminder for me, like, this is a big deal. Like this is Jesus actually, guys like, this is super important. This is a big deal. You know, it's not just a watered down, okay, they were having their churches, and they were getting together for like, small groups like this was changing the world. I mean, if somebody is trying to kill you, if multiple people are trying to kill you, because of what you're doing. This has got to be an extreme thing. It's not just an annoyance or something that they're coming in, like, Oh, we don't love this. It also I think shows the power of how quickly it's spread. You know, because I think if people were going through and like if they were trying and churches weren't actually starting, then they would just go math, like, well just let it it's gonna die out.

Kate Boyd: 29:27

Yeah, I mean, we see that a few chapters back, or maybe it was even the last couple of chapters when Gamaliel right is like, you know, it'll probably just wear itself out. Like, don't worry about it. Because, right. Like, if it's of God, it'll stick around. And if it's not, it'll just go away and no one will remember. And so now we're sort of seeing that, that come to fruition, and we're actually seeing how it's changing everything. Yeah. Yeah. So I wonder how come Emilio feels at this point when he's like, Oh, actually, like, did he ever convert? Or was he part of these people who are against him? And I'm, I'm very curious about that. I would love to talk to him about it. And so Saul escapes through the wall which feels very, very like Joshua Rahab situation. So that calls back a little bit to me from the some of the Old Testament stories goes to Jerusalem where everyone's afraid. In good old Barnabas, how good is Barnabas? Like the best person?

Unknown: 30:49

He's got to be Enneagram, nine, right? Something like that. To help.

Kate Boyd: 30:54

Yeah. encourager. Um, yeah, I just love him, because I'm in a later chapter that I'm talking about later today. You know, at another point, he sort of does the same thing. But for John Mark, right, he sort of splits off. And so I think he's really like a person who sees the best in people and is like, I'm going to give them a chance, even if you're not going to give them a chance. And in a way, I mean, I think, in a way, he was probably a pseudo mentor, probably to Sol because of the time that they they spent together and later they go on their missions together. And for a while his name is even listed before Paul's before it starts really catching momentum. And then Paul becomes the star. But before that, it's it's Barnabus that everybody's looking to

Nathan Worthington: 31:48

Yeah. What stands out to me about this verse is that he has it, it almost reads like I'm an ESV. But it almost reads like he has first hand knowledge of his conversion. You know, this is an ese. You know, he declared to them how on the road, he had seen the Lord, who spoke to him. So there's like this, there's this, like divine advocacy that Barnabas is demonstrating here. And it's really humbling, because it's like, Man, what a model. You know, that he wasn't there when it happened, but he's speaking on his behalf as if he was. And I'm like, man, if we were to like, think about our social circles and our communities, do we have anybody in our in our lives? That is that level of advocacy? And maybe that's a huge bar to set. But, but it's, but it's still like that, that concept of this. People, you know, who do you have in your circle that, that will believe in you that much? And advocate for you and encourage you? And it's really, it's something for certainly that for sure to aspire to.

Kristin Mockler Young: 33:03

And I think who are we doing that for? Also, you know, there's always like, the reach ahead and reach behind, like, we need people supporting us. And we also need people, you know, that we're bringing up behind us, is really the way to do it.

Kate Boyd: 33:16

Yeah. Which, I mean, yeah, becomes the model that Paul puts in all the places right, this very, like mentored, elder, we're all sort of in this bringing each other up together. And I think that's, you know, I like to think that he learned it from Barnabas, and I think that's really special. But, you know, even in Jerusalem, people want to kill him. So he has to leave again. But at this time, at least, the church is on his side, and they're sending him home, they're like, just go back to Tarsus, and hang out for a little bit. So at least I guess Barnabas was convincing, because they were. I think it shows the reputation of Barnabas, who we met in a few chapters ago, very briefly, but he sort of has this like, little space where they really trusted him and his word and they're like, Alright, we're gonna let we're gonna take care of Paul. So they didn't just like let him know they actually helped him get away from people. So there's a lot there. And now we pivot to Peter. Which feels kind of weird. I feel like this should be part of the next chapter. Maybe because the next chapter is all about Peter, but here we are. And the healing of erroneous, erroneous, however we say that

Nathan Worthington: 34:49

I felt a nice that's gone with it. Yeah. You're paralyzed. bedridden. They're just being spoken over. Here, Rice's.

Kate Boyd: 35:09

Yeah, I was reading about how, gosh, what did it say? Um, it had something to do with, it wasn't really about because like, a lot of times people would claim, they would say the name of spirits and things like that. But he was really focused on. Like, he wasn't doing it himself, he was claiming the authority of Jesus in doing it, and that he didn't have to, like, ask Jesus to do it. He just said, In the name, you know, get up, which also echoes some of the things that Jesus said and did in his own ministry. So we're also sort of seeing that actual bury discipleship in the, you know, watching and learning and doing Yeah, that Peter must have experienced firsthand, which I think is really interesting.

Kristin Mockler Young: 36:05

And for him to believe, to like, Okay, I've got this same power, like Jesus told us. I mean, Peter was there when Jesus was like, Hey, you're gonna do these things? And for him to actually I don't know if I would actually believe it. Like, I think I would struggle with that, you know, to be like, no, no, like, you're going to do these things. I'll pray for some people. I'll like talk about you. It'll be cool. But Peter, full on believed, hey, I have the same spirit. I have the same power. Because he did. He did healings, you know? Yeah.

Nathan Worthington: 36:34

Yeah. Which shows growth too. Because wasn't there's a time in the Gospels where Jesus corrects the disciples in how they're praying, and, you know, invoking his power. And so this actually shows some growth. That, okay, he's like, coming in with the full authority. Like Jesus instructed him, so yeah, it's, yeah. Which makes me feel better. Because I'm like, I know, the process. I'm always growing and always getting better. And it's okay. Yeah, yeah. Just struggle with assertive praying, or not an assertive prayer. I've always been like, God, if it's your will, you know, and, you know, I've stepped out and like, tried to, you know, be better at that, right? With grace. Obviously, it just, no, I'm tapping into a power that's been promised to me. And, and it's available, and it's an abundance. It's not quite like this. But it's, it's really, but when you see it, and you come more comfortable with it, and you see it proven, it makes it even that much easier to tap into going forward. So yeah,

Kate Boyd: 37:42

I am, I go in and out of how bold I am, when things like that, but I had a friend who went on a mission trip to India. And she was talking about how she met a woman who just like, had a lot of headaches. And she that's what she asked her prayer for, was to, you know, not have her headaches anymore. And she was really nervous about praying. assertively, right, like big Lee boldly for her to be healed. And the translator slash local person who was with her, like, listen, of course, it's God's will that she has healed like, of course, maybe it's not here on Earth. Maybe it's, you know, in the restoration, but that's praying that is never going to be out of God's will. Because his will is that we are all whole and restored. And I was like, wow, that's a really good perspective. So that even if it doesn't happen here, we know that that prayer, like that is going to be honored someday. And I think that was, that was really helpful for me. That's good. Well, and so Peter, has someone get up and then he encounters someone who is, you know, not living anymore? They've washed her for burial. She's laying there and everyone is sad. And yeah, so what do we think of this Tabitha Dorcas situation?

Nathan Worthington: 39:17

Yeah, I mean, the name Dorcas really stands out right i I'm gonna nerd out a little bit on you guys about the cool cuz I just unraveled like a cat with a ball of yarn for this. So when I was looking at commentaries, I saw that one interesting fact that kind of started this whole path for me was, so she is described as a disciple. And the disciple in the text here is actually the feminine form of the word disciple, which is my patria. And what struck me is it's the only time that form of the word of the feminine form is used in the whole New Testament. Ever Hmm, so I'm like, which is pretty amazing given how many other Rockstar women, right? estimate. So I'm like, so what is it about this woman? That that gets that honor? Right? And that's kind of what started this whole like, let me find out wow. First of all the name Dorcas means Gizelle which I love that you ladies, but I always think about like a graceful, delicate Gazelle just frolicking through. So graceful comes into mind, but she is described as you know, someone who's full of good works and acts of charity, and we get a glimpse of that. Because all these widows that are they're holding garments that she had made for them. And as I kind of dug in here, I found a couple of interesting things I, you know, not over over familiar Jhapa. So I looked up Java and the major C port. Right, they're in modern day Tel Aviv, and just throughout its entire history, just completely just repeatedly invaded and conquered over and over and over and over again, any type of dynasty, or king or army, this city was always like the entry point to being conquered. And so when I think about that, it's basically a modern day like, war torn city, you know, and what are some of the markers of that, you know, that we see in today's world, today's cities that are that are like that, you know, a lot of poverty, a lot of oppression. And then because of that, subsequently, you know, widows. You think about widows and you know, in this context, right, you got, you know, their women in general are unfortunately, you know, undervalued. But then when you're widowed, even less so. And so there's that piece, and then she is making garments for these widows. So she's very much meeting the spiritual physical needs of what society would be deemed as the least of these, right. And then what else I thought I found out is that, you know, this is actually where if you guys have ever heard of Dorcas societies, have you ever heard of this? For me, too, it's basically like a parachurch organization. Dorcas societies, and they're known for caring for the poor, and meeting, you know, those that are oppressed, and it's, it's born out of out of Tabitha. And then a real, really, this is mind blowing. For me. I was like, Oh my gosh, there's a school in modern day Java in Tel Aviv, named the tab of the school. It was opened in 1863. For it was a school just for girls, who were it was a focus on giving them a measure of dignity and independence in an oppressive society. Wow. And back then it was a rundown community of both Christian and Muslim Arabs. They were under Turkish rule. And the school's first class had 14 Girls, who were a mix of Christian, Jewish and Muslim backgrounds, focused on reading and writing, sewing and lacemaking. So we're seeing that Tabitha, skill set come back in. It's obviously since then opened up the boys this enrollment, but it boasts students from 40 different nationalities, and they don't put any restrictions on gender, nationality, or things like that. And so in the context of, I read all that, and I come back to verse 31. So the Church throughout all Judea, and Galilee, in some area, had peace, and was being built up and walking in the fear of the Lord in the comfort of the Holy Spirit and multiplied. And you got a very diverse cross section there in that in that wonderful school that's still in existence today. We're Christians, Muslims, and Jewish students are all coming together, which is something that just doesn't happen. Just just kind of amazing, deep dive on that. So I was really thankful that this, I mean, you think about the tax rate that there were, you know, there was something about this woman that required two men to be sent to go get Peter. Right. You know, yeah. What was it about this woman that, that, that that was needed? That was something that was like an urgent thing? And I think that's, that's it, it's,

Kate Boyd: 44:31

and this is even like the for I think, the first instance post Jesus that we see someone being resurrected, right, like coming back from the dead, like Jesus did that, but they either believed that it was they believed it was possible, or at least that this person was worth trying that for, and I think that is a lot, right. Yeah. Um, and one of the commentaries I read said She say something about the first disciple to experienced resurrection. In you know, post in post Jesus world is Tabitha Dorcas is a woman right now, right and female. And so I, I just think that's such like an interesting, I had never really thought about it. I was like, Oh yeah, she came back from the dead that feels like that happens all the time. And I bow like everybody's coming back from the dead. But this is the first instance of like, a disciple doing that that's recorded anyway. And that it happened to this woman who meant so much to so many people. I think that was just, I don't know, that was really a lovely piece there.

Kristin Mockler Young: 45:48

And I love to because I couldn't get I'm somebody that gets so frustrated. I'm like, Bible writers like more details. Who is she? What did she do? You know, we've got like, the same stories four times throughout the Gospels. And then we've got Dorcas, Tabitha, we're like, like anybody like something. So Nate, I actually love the research that you did, of just kind of finding out the different schools and things that have been started even in her name, because just to me, going back again, to, we just have to play our small parts, and trust that God is going to use us to the extent that we're willing, she will never know how far her legacy extended, like, she will never know how many people truly are going to, like meet Jesus through her or her life. And that is like, what kind of keeps me going, especially when, you know, just reading these little pieces, and I'm like, Oh, are we making a difference? And is anything even happening? But we just don't even know. I'm like, getting ahead of myself. But no,

Nathan Worthington: 46:47

I think you're spot on when you look at the widows like when when when Peter comes to them, they're weeping. And they're holding her tunics that she made. Like, that's her legacy. And like, it's, man, it's it's, it's Wow.

Kate Boyd: 47:04

Yeah.

Kristin Mockler Young: 47:06

I have to remember too, that we're not reading the Bible. Like in real time, you know, we get from like, what, like Peters in Joppa. And then in the next verse, or he's in wida, and an expertise in Joppa. And so that takes us about like, half a second. But really, they were so far. I mean, they were like, it would have taken him at least four hours to travel from one city to the next. So we have to remember, like, you know, Peters doing miraculous things, then he has to walk like he's got to be exhausted by the time he gets there. You know, I have to just remind myself that because in my mind, I'm like, Oh, he just went next door. And they like cross city right now. And he did the thing, and now he's doing the thing. But it's really not like there's so much time that happens and passes, you know, even from verse to verse. Yeah.

Kate Boyd: 47:52

I know. And then, so we're about to pivot into 10. And they're like, and then and sesor. Rhea, so now we're going to like a whole different place. Right? Um, so Kristin, why don't you recap chapter 10? For us?

Unknown: 48:02

Yeah. Yeah. So we have no Paul here really?

Kate Boyd: 48:05

Got Yeah, we're gonna forget about him for a minute.

Kristin Mockler Young: 48:08

So in 10, it's kind of like two intersecting stories. So first, we've got this guy named Cornelius, who was a Roman army officer. He was not Jewish, but he, it looks as though it says he was God fearing. So we're like, maybe he was like a possible religious convert. And he has a vision where it looks like a guy walks into his room and just says, you know, your prayers and your outreach to the poor, have been noticed by God. And then the guy goes away, and he wants some people to go to Java to get Peter. And there's no knowing why he just says do it. So Cornelius gets a couple servants, and he tells them what happens. And he sends them out to get Peter. And then we kind of like, you know, like, we were talking about simultaneous stories. And all of a sudden, we're with Peter, and Peter is at lunchtime, and it says that he's hungry, and he's praying on his roof. And he also has a vision, but instead of a guy walking in, he kind of goes into a trance. And his vision is that a sheet or a blanket comes down from heaven, with ropes on the four corners, and inside is being lowered down. Every animal like every animal that exists birds, and reptiles. And all of these things, I think, is as every kind of animal and reptile and bird you could think of was on it that's in the Message translation. And the voice says to Peter, kill them and eat them. And he's like, No, thank you. This is not what we do. Like this is not the rule. This is not the law. And so I have never eaten anything that is impure or unclean. And the voice responds back to him and says, Do not call something unclean. If God has made it clean, and it says that this vision happens three times this interaction happens three times. Then the sheet is just kind of pulled up. And I love verse 17. Peter was very perplexed. So he's so we see the vision and, and he's literally like, I have no idea what just happened. And he's trying to figure it out. Meanwhile, Cornelius's servants have come to his house, he doesn't know because he's still in his mind going, what? Then the Holy Spirit comes to Peter. And he's like, Hey, there's three guys downstairs, and I want you to go with them. So Peter just goes downstairs, he's like, Hey, I think I'm the guy looking for. And so he goes to Syria with Cornelius, His servants. He gets there. And now our two stories kind of meld and Cornelius welcomes him in and Peter, they have a little conversation where Peter basically says, you know, this is not normal. Like it's illegal for me to come here. It was against Jewish law to associate with people who I always just kind of thought of Jews and Gentiles growing up, I think as like different religions. But it was like a bigger deal. It was almost like a cultural or a race thing. So he says, You know, God has shown me it's like, almost in the moment, his vision makes sense to him. And he says, God has shown me that I should no longer think of anyone as impure or unclean. So I'm here. Why did you want me to gummies like, I'm here, but still, I don't know why. So Cornelius basically says, like, Hey, I've got all my friends, all my family, I've gathered all of these people. And we are just here to know what God has told you to tell us. So Peter tells them about Jesus. He does the whole thing. And he's like, their God shows no favoritism, if you want a relationship with Him like it's available. And then they all basically get saved. They all get baptized. And then Peter hangs out. And he hangs around with them for a while. And that's pretty much where we end.

Kate Boyd: 51:57

Yeah. So I one thing I'd that like, every commentary I read, pointed out, had something to do with Peter. So I'm sort of rewinding a little bit to chapter nine, where it says he stayed with a certain Simon a tanner. So a tanner, like they work with dead animals. Right. So really, he's already sort of lacks on some of his restriction. Yes. Right, because he's hanging out with people that he probably shouldn't be hanging out with. And so it's sort of, then feels kind of weird that he's like, Ah, I don't know, that's unclean stuff. You talking about? It's a very interesting dilemma. For me. Yeah. It's sort of like where were the lions? For Peter? Because we know that he hung out with Gentiles and ate with them and did stuff. But there was like this weird. I don't know, the food thing, I guess, was just really, like, I can control this.

Kristin Mockler Young: 53:04

Yeah, I read actually, in one of my footnotes that it said, Because Joppa was predominantly Jewish, but there were a lot of Gentiles there. And so that was why maybe they were kind of lacks on certain things. And they were like, I mean, we're gonna uphold this, we're gonna uphold this, but not be as strict. But it did say that. Surely it included people who were really conservative, which just made me think of like the current church, right? We've got lots of people in whatever church conservative might mean something in one church and mean something completely different in another church. Yeah, I think we see the same thing where we've got people that are like, No, this is super important. Like, no, actually, this is super important. And we're not really so strict on this, you know, this law or this rule. But just funny to me to see the parallel that we're still dealing with almost the same

Kate Boyd: 53:55

things like there's nothing new, right? We're repeating history. Yeah. So Cornelius, what do we think of Cornelius? I think it's. So a centurion, which is interesting, but very generous. And all those things I, I'm just trying to imagine like what it's like to have someone say, The Lord has seen all the good stuff that you've done, like, don't we all just want to hear that? Right. Um, and even so they were talking about how he was up on the roof, and he was praying at a certain time. And so that sort of showed how devout he must have been, because that was sort of the normal time for prayer. So even though it doesn't seem like he had gone so far as to be circumcised to become part of, you know, being Jewish in that way. He was very faithful in his, his God fearing right the way that he approached everything.

Kristin Mockler Young: 55:02

We even see that later. I'm going to jump around a little bit, but we even see how like his kind of religious practice, I guess later when Peter arrives because it says that he falls prostrate. He like falls facedown in front of Peter. And Peter's like, no, no, no, that's not what we do here. Like, I'm just a guy like you, I am not the one to be worshipped. But that was something that the Gentiles actually did. Back in the day, it was a common practice for their other deities or gods that they would lay prostrate, or they would go facedown in front of them. And so I think we're kind of seeing here like, he wants to be religious, he believes in a religion, he hasn't quite exactly figured out like Jesus and how Christianity works. Yeah, but he definitely, I think has the heart for it, because he's like, I want to do what I'm supposed to do. He just hasn't, you know, like you said, transitions maybe into to the actual like, face.

Nathan Worthington: 56:00

Yeah, I was thinking about that, too. Like, it's, it's almost like, is that like, when you hear a new Christian pray for the first time? Is it? Is it something you're gonna like, you know, put on a podcast? Maybe not. But but at the very heart of what they're saying. It's genuine, right? I look at this as like, when he's doing that. I'm like, I think he recognizes he's on like, holy ground in that moment. And that's the only way that he knows how to respond to it. Yeah.

Kristin Mockler Young: 56:34

I think I would stand girl to like, if Peter showed up, I'd be like, oh, gosh, like,

Kate Boyd: 56:40

you heard about this guy? Yeah, I know, I think. And that's sort of what I love. Um, I think that's another theme that we sort of see and acts all these people who are like trying to do the right thing, right, but it's just a little off. And sometimes they're condemned for it. Like, sometimes they're like, no, no, this is not the way to do it. But a lot of times, they're like, no, let me explain this to you and correct you. And then you can keep, then you can do better as you go on. And I really appreciate sort of that and being able to see how that's being treated, because like we've all done stuff like that, you know, where we think we're doing. I mean, even if we go back to Saul in the last chapter, when he was persecuting people, he thought he was doing the right thing. And then Jesus is like, no, no, you're not. But you know, and in that case, it was a bit extreme. But he got corrected, and now look at him. Right. And so it's really, um, I think it shows how much hope there is for all of us, even in all of our, like, flaws and mess ups.

Kristin Mockler Young: 57:53

Yeah. Are we willing to learn? Are we willing to go okay, this religious practice that I always thought was the right way, the one way, the only way? Am I willing to humble myself and go, Okay, well, maybe actually, it's a little bit different than I thought, or a lot different. I thought, yeah.

Nathan Worthington: 58:11

You gotta remember, like, the Bible is a bunch of stories. These are real people in real times when they're real emotions, real experiences, which isn't, which is intentional, so that we can relate to it. And I think when you see these stories, and you see Cornelius Ballina, worship, Peter, we do it. But it certainly, you know, in a sense, it lowers the bar for us, and it invites everybody in to play their role. Yeah, as you were saying, and it's, it doesn't have to be this. And definitely, I was gonna kind of go back to it. We were shooting Peter. And then we also, you know, we all love to go after the story of salt conversion. It's like this mountaintop experience. You know, and we can get into like, celebrity culture in the church, right? But it's no, it's like, it's the person that's in the nursery holding the babies. There is a special place for her at the table for him at the table. And it's not always the guy or girl on stage. Right. And so it's, it's, it's really beautiful, how it's written out, you see these little nuanced roles that are preordained and anointed that Lesher in massive, massive life change that infects cities for the good. Yeah.

Kate Boyd: 59:36

Yeah, I mean, and I also find a lot of comfort in in seeing someone like Peter Wright, who has had actual FaceTime with Jesus for a really long time and he's learned a lot of things and he's done a lot of things and here he is, getting a vision and he's like, I don't know, like, to the point that he has to have it three times Like, you know, that makes me feel better. Like sometimes I don't know, either Peter, I don't know.

Kristin Mockler Young: 1:00:07

I just picturing Peter after the second time he's like, oh, right, right, that number three follows me everywhere. Like, I bet this is gonna come one more time.

Kate Boyd: 1:00:16

We got to round it out, and you might as well do it.

Kristin Mockler Young: 1:00:19

magic number. Like I can't escape this three thing. But even still after that he was very perplexed. And he's asking himself like what in the world, which is one of my favorite things truly. Because we don't always have to know, you know, it's just like, again, I'm getting ahead of myself a little bit here. But just the idea of they both just were obedient. He was like, hey, Cornelius was like, I don't know what this means. Go get the guy. Okay, we'll go get the guy. And Peter didn't know what his vision meant. But he still went to the next thing. It wasn't like, Okay, I have to resolve this first, then I can go with these people who are here for me. So it's like, he's kind of figuring out. Alright, I don't know what this vision means. Now, here comes the next thing. I don't have to have answers. I don't have to have resolve, I don't have to have like certainty before I move on to the next, like, our lives are just a web of stories and interactions and choices that we're going to make. And are we going to be obedient and multiple things at once or try to, you know, make everything linear, which is not actually how life works?

Kate Boyd: 1:01:25

I know. Yeah. Much too much to my chagrin. I would love to have all the answers, right? Unfortunately, you often have to move in order to get the answers that you're looking for in the first place.

Nathan Worthington: 1:01:42

And that's what happens. Yeah. And I think too, is you see this, and there's this, there's this because you don't know the answers are because these people don't know the answers. They don't know where they're being led to there is this natural dependence on other people. And I think that's a key theme. And I think, you know, we're living in a time where it's not we need to get out their heads. It's not about us. And there's a reason that we have other people that that the church is a body right with with with different parts. If you knew everything, Kate, you wouldn't need other people you wouldn't be you wouldn't be held any

Kate Boyd: 1:02:36

people but I like being independent. Yeah, exactly. Please let me isolate Okay. Um, yeah. So, then we see, so now we see, you know, Peter, and Cornelius, like, connect and interact, and now things are clicking for people. So yeah, what do we think of their interaction beyond like, once Peters there and, and everything start clicking.

Kristin Mockler Young: 1:03:10

I mean, they're, they're there. I love that Cornelius knew, like, he had to have some kind of anticipation, right? Because he had his friends and family and he had like, gathered all these people. So he had to have known. Again, he's like, I had a vision, a guy came in my room, told me some things. God knows who I am, like, God has recognized the work that I'm doing. And I'm supposed to go get Peter. So surely, there was an anticipation about once this guy shows up, there's a reason there's going to be some good thing. And so I love that he wasn't just like, I'm going to keep this to myself. And I'm going to sit here and I'm going to wait, but I'm going to go ahead and get everybody to come. It's almost like a sharing of the blessing, you know, he anticipates some cool thing is going to happen. But instead of it wanting to be special, and about him, he's like, Okay, we're going to get I want my family to come and I want friends to come and people traveled probably for hours, you know, to be there. And I just love that picture. It like in my mind, it's like a home church. He's like, we're gonna hear something he didn't know. Probably that Peter was gonna, you know, share the gospel with them. But he knew it was gonna be good enough that he wanted to share it with the people in his life.

Kate Boyd: 1:04:24

Yeah, I mean, you do get the sense that there are more people there because you know, Peter starts preaching and then it talks about the Holy Spirit falling like this is not just like a few dudes in the house this light there actually appeared to be because Peters doing kind of the same thing he always does is he then connects everything to Jesus. And, and that he doesn't even have to like normally Peter sermons have a call for repentance, but like he doesn't even get that far because because the Holy Spirit's coming on them already and so right um, it does seem to be Like there's, there's already movement here. And there are already people here. And so it's just sort of like this intersection of all of that, at the same time, which is really cool. And then baptisms, that's always exciting,

Unknown: 1:05:14

but not a hot topic at all.

Kristin Mockler Young: 1:05:18

And we get both baptisms here, we get like a Holy Spirit baptism. And then we get, you know, Jesus water baptism, which is what most of us think of. I love in the in the first baptism, if we want to call it the Holy Spirit, it says that it falls upon all the people, and the Jews who had come with Peter were amazed. So I think this almost calls back to chapter nine, where, again, whether it was physical skills, or just Paul having his eyes opened, it's the same idea. I think the people the Jews, even that came with, Peter had their eyes open all of a sudden, like, I can't help out with think that some of these, because I would do the same thing. If I'm, like traveling with Peter, and I'm hearing sermons all the time, or I'm traveling with whoever, and I'm hearing sermons all the time, like, I'm gonna zone out, right? I'm gonna be like, Oh, I heard this one in the last town, like, I know where he's going with this. And so I wonder if they kind of do that, but it says that they had their eyes open, too. And so it's like, this vision became not just for Peter, but for all of them, you know, and because he was obedient in talking about it, not only was he then bringing Gentiles into understanding and knowing who Jesus was, but even taking these Jews that were following him kind of to the next level of their understanding, too.

Kate Boyd: 1:06:37

Yeah, I mean, one thing I read called this the Gentile Pentecost, which I liked, and how it's, it really speaks to sort of the structure of x, which is it so it's interesting here, to me that Peters the one doing it, because you normally associate all the Gentile stuff with Paul. But Peter here is, you know, the, like, at the sight of both of like both of these Pentecostals, right, where it breaks, the Holy Spirit breaks in and is now extended to all peoples. Like we got a glimpse of that, I think with Philip in the unik back in like chapter seven or eight. Um, but even the eunuch appeared to at least be Jewish, because he was there to worship in the temple. So now we're actually seeing like, it's not just an ethnicity thing. It's, you know, a religious and ethnicity thing that we're seeing, breaking open. And Peter's even like, I truly understand that now that God shows no partiality, but in every nation, anyone who fears him and does what is right and acceptable to him. So whatever the message was to the people of Israel preaching peace by Jesus Christ, he is Lord ball. And so now Peters actually getting just how far this is going to go. And as this becomes, I think, at this point, it's still a very Jewish religion like it, like they treat it like a sect of Judaism. But we as it sort of expands, we get less of that, especially with Paul in the coming chapters. And so I do find it interesting that it's Peter here. And not Paul, that feels weird for the story, but also a really great like, parallel to Peter, doing this for the Jewish people in Judea before. Anything else from this chapter before we move on to our takeaways?

Nathan Worthington: 1:08:34

I think other than just jump into the ESV, it says that they were amazed. And it's that moment of the scales falling off of their eyes, right? Is this astonishment This is complete. I mean, when you encounter something that's just life changing, it changed it, that's what we call it, life changing, it changes you, and it moves you to the point of action. And that's why it's spreading so quickly. It's totally it's not harnessed at all. It's just this wildfire that's spreading. And I think it's impossible for me to like put myself in this story. And like, imagine that because I, in my church experience, like I didn't grow up in a very charismatic type environment. And so when I go to those types of services, I'm kind of like, more skeptical. So when I read this, I'm like, man like that. I just can't fathom what that would look like.

Kristin Mockler Young: 1:09:37

So much of Scripture. I'm like, if I was actually there, you know, if I was actually part of this, how different would the experience be?

Kate Boyd: 1:09:47

Well, I always go back to you. I remember. I mean, it was probably 10 years ago now, but I read Francis Chan's forgotten God about the Holy Spirit. He's like if you plop someone on a desert island And all they had was the book of Acts to read, they would come away believing that they, you know, through the power of God could do a whole lot of crazy things. Like, it's just what you would think after reading all of that. And to think how much we miss some of that. Yeah, can be kind of a bummer, you know, to think like, we have all of this, like that miracles can happen. And that, you know, God's timing can happen in all these set in all these like very specific ways. But we're often preoccupied with other things or don't believe that that's available for us now, just because it's unusual. But it may be precisely because it's unusual that it's something we should be thinking about more.

Nathan Worthington: 1:10:53

Yeah, yeah, I think I mean, what if, what, if any of these guys would have made a different decision? Right? What if What if Cornelius would have never acted out? Or what if an iris would have said, No, I'm not gonna go to Paul. I'm not doing that. He's, he's dangerous. It changes the entire story. So I think the challenge because I look at myself, but what I do that, like I said earlier, you know, I see myself and is like, I think if my default default response, and so that the hope and prayer out of this is, guy would do give me that, that soft heart, would you remove the scales? You know, from my eyes? When they when, you know, just in general? What, what, especially when it matters most, so that I don't disrupt what you're doing. Yeah. I don't want to be the cog in the wheel that doesn't. You know, but God's God, he'll do it anyway. Which is used someone else. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So it's,

Kate Boyd: 1:11:57

yeah, yeah. It's an invitation, not a requirement. Right. And so sometimes we, we miss that? Yeah. Okay. Um, so let's start with our meat thoughts and our wheat thoughts. Kristin, why don't you kick us off there?

Kristin Mockler Young: 1:12:11

Oh, that works. Kind of like Nate was just saying, My kind of the takeaway for me is like obedience, before understanding that I don't have to know why things are happening. I don't have to know why he's calling me to things. And I think as a as a church staffer, right now, that's a very big picture of like, I don't have to know why the church looks like it does. I don't have to know why people are exiting and why everything seems to be so hard. You know. But then, for me specifically, like, I don't have to know why God's calling me to, I mean, go to a certain coffee date, even or, you know, write a sermon on a particular topic, or use specific scriptures, or make a phone call or even like, do a silly, you know, Instagram or like tick tock video, like there, I don't always have to have a reason. But if I feel in nudging, then I just have to obediently go, you know, Cornelius didn't understand, and Peter didn't understand. And they just went and it was revealed to them later. And I think that it won't always necessarily be revealed. But like, Nate, you're saying, like, it's our choice? Are we going to make the choice to do it? And so it was just a good reminder for me that God doesn't want me to have knowledge, but he wants me to move in faith, whether or not it makes sense because there are people you know, like in chapter 10, verse 33, that were waiting to hear the message that was on Peters heart and I think God has people like that for all of us and whether or not it makes sense to us. He knows it'll make sense, you know, to them. So it's just my my reminder of like, I'm the mouthpiece, not the mastermind. Like I'm the narrator but not the author of the message right.

Kate Boyd: 1:13:53

Is that the set your meet and your we

Kristin Mockler Young: 1:13:57

That's my meet. So my we kind of takeaway is just the whole idea of, you know, more of Peters vision, I guess I'm not calling unclean what God has called clean. And so I think it's easy sometimes to go with like the hot button topics and go okay, race politics, like inclusion of LGBT like all of these things. It's easy to go big picture and say, Well, I'm not going to call this people group unclean. But what about even in the small, small little things, it's easier to overlook, like maybe somebody's teaching style or personality? Or, you know, the people that rub us the wrong way. Can we sit here and go, alright, well, if we mean that, you know, everybody is has made in God's image, then that means everybody and so I think sometimes that means we don't maybe take stances on things it means that we kind of hold hands with people on both sides and just kind of walk forward going alright, what does it look like to follow Jesus better? Like we've been talking this whole time, like, what is the process and in humility? Can we lay down the things that we thought we were right about or thought were wrong and just say, alright, like everybody that wants to go forward, you're all made in God's image, like, let's just chase after him together. And that's, you know, where we gonna find our unity?

Kate Boyd: 1:15:23

Yeah. Nate, how about you?

Nathan Worthington: 1:15:27

Yeah, so I think, for me, the the last year or so has been really trying for me and my wife, and where we're at with ministry and church. And just kind of like, pseudo deconstruction, but also just go back to the drawing board and asking God, you know, what do you have for us and come to the realization that, like, it's easy to sit back and critique the church. It doesn't take much effort to do that. By all means, I think we should in some degree, you know, church, but at some point, you got to also ask yourself, Okay, but But what do we want to know? It's sort of down? What do we want to build? Yeah, that's good, right? At some point, you've got to go to a place. And so hanging out in this has been really good for me to bring it back to Okay, what do we want to do? What do we want to build. And, you know, I've been really hanging out in the last two weeks, the Sermon on the Mount, but specifically with Jesus talking about anxiety. And as Enneagram, six, I think we've beaten that dead on this episode, but it's something I've struggled with, and in this last year, leading ministry in a rough way, in a very abrupt way, and not knowing what's next. And trying to figure things out, we had a we have a baby in the last year change jobs. This has been really good to like really see some very tangible examples in Act nine and 10 of people just going with the flow. And, and not having it all figured out. And seeing it, you know, see that clarity come from obedience. So that to me is it was really helpful. And a good reminder that, that, you know, he is God is weaving and working all things together for His purpose, according to His will, to the people who are who are called and who loves him. And so, yeah, it's, it's great. I think my To that end, and Chris, and you kind of alluded to it, I think, you know, we standpoint, I think it is that, you know, whether it's Paul, or whether it's Peter, it is this, I think we got a good like, you know, contrast between like celebrity and the collective. I think, in our context in America, I think we do have this celebrity savior complex, right. And I talked to a friend of mine a while back, and he was like, you know, what, he wasn't a believer yet. And he was like, I'm looking for this burning bush moment in my life. And I'm like, well, that's, that's really happened once in all human history.

Kate Boyd: 1:18:07

Maybe like, a little

Nathan Worthington: 1:18:09

Yeah, but even but even in youth ministry, you know, youth ministry is built around mountaintop experiences, the church. And you know, but so much of what I've come to learn in 39 years is so much of, of God is very much in the valleys, and the mundane. And so I think, you know, and by all means, you know, the conversion saw, we always go to that to go to passage, right. But I think it can set up a lot of people for failure and thinking that, Oh, my conversion isn't as worthwhile or it's not as real. And, and I think it's just really great to just cling on to, you know, the stories of Anya and the two people, the two men that that went and got Peter, and the Cordelia says these people who played vital, vital roles in bringing forth the story of God and helping it move forward. There needs to be a better balance, I feel like in our in our ministries and our teachings, that that every story truly does matter. And, and the table is very, very big, and it's wide. And there's a seat for everybody. And it will always make sense. And like I said before, you know, there's no reason any of these people should ever cross paths socially, spiritually, religiously, economically. And yet, here we are.

Kate Boyd: 1:19:40

Yeah. Yeah, no, I love those. So my me and my we kind of go together and it's really just kind of looking back at chapter nine. And two people that really stand out to me is like Barnabas and Dorcas and just like, how I want to emulate their example and The way that I interact with people or trust people or bring people, you know, with me, or care for people, right to have a community that I cared for enough, that also wants to see me raised from the dead. Like, that's, that's like next level kind of love and care and commitment and community. And, you know, I, I not that I want people to love me so much or put me on a pedestal to do that, but that I want to be a presence in in people's lives. That is felt right, yeah, in the way that Barnabas does that for Saul. And the way that, you know, Tabitha Dorcas did that for so many people. To the point, you know, where that lovely detail of like, they're around, like, clutching these garments that she made for them. And while they weep over her, like, there are just so many of those little opportunities, and people that we interact with all the time, and that we see over and over and that they, you know, it's the little list thing that could be making, you know, a real tangible, like difference for someone. And so being able to do that, and have that kind of like, presence and community, but also community around me, is definitely something that, you know, I'm looking for in this season. So I'm very, I was really grateful to have those, like two specific people to really look at this week. You know, as I'm sort of, like, I'm reorienting community in general, just in my life. And so as I'm doing that, having them sort of be be guides for who I want to be, and who I want to be around was really, really helpful. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you enjoyed this discussion, I would love it if you would rate and review the show on your favorite podcast player. You know the drill. This helps more people find the show and learn with us as we talk through Scripture. And then I would love if you came over on social media to talk about what your big takeaways were, what your main thought and we thought were from our discussion, or for when you dove into the chapters. You can find me on Instagram at Kate Boyd Co. and on Twitter at v Kate Boyd. And don't forget to check the show notes to find and follow today's contributors as well. Thank you for joining

Unknown: 1:22:42

us.